Home > The Survival Guide > Education in France > The Failing French Education System
The Failing French Education System
General Introduction to French Further Education
Tuesday 25 March 2008, by
The French view of their education system as one of the best in the world is hardly reflected by their leading establishments’ low rankings in the world.
In the top 100 world universities or further education establishments, France manages just two entries at 26th and 28th, the ENS and the Ecole Polytechnique.
The ENS and the Ecole Polytechnique have a combined annual intake of 694 students. They are ’Grand Ecoles’ with all the snoberry and elitism that one associates with the finishing schools of the last century.
The top ten being divided at 6 to the US and 4 to the UK.
Looking at individual disciplines, they fare a touch better
In technology one of their grand ecoles manages 34th just after the Indian Bombay Institute of technology and is the only French representative in the top 50.
In Arts and Humanities, the Sorbonne and the ENS are their only 2 representatives in the top 50.with the Sorbonne leading the way at 28th.
In Life Sciences & Biomedicine, the University Louis Pasteur of Strasbourg is the only French representative, scraping in at 48th.
In Natural Sciences France manages three entries in the top 50 with the ENS leading the way at 20th.
In Social Sciences France draws a blank, with no establishments in the world top 50.
If we become more local and look at just the European top 50 establishments, France fares a little better;
The ENS comes in at 7th just behind Cambridge, Oxford, Imperial College London, Edingburgh and King’s College London.
The Ecole Polytechnique comes in at 8th, just in front of Manchester, Bristol and Zurich.
But that is it. 2/50 for France, one behind little Belgium, compared to 8 out of the top 10 or 23/50 for the UK, Germany has 4/50, Netherlands 6/50.
So when looking at further education choices, what should one do for the best?
The ENS ( Ecole Normale Supérieure, PARIS) is France’s flagship at 26th in the world rankings and 7th in Europe. This is a ’Grand Ecole’, basically teaching would be teachers and professors.
To get your child there, he or she must first pass the BAC and obtain, at least, a mention. then get a place at a ’Preppa’ (Ecole Preparatoire) that prepares for the ENS.
There is usually a cull of about 30% of the students at the end of their first year at Preppa and of the remaining students who take the ’competition’ for a place at ENS, only 6%, that is a grand global total of 194 pupils each year, win a place at the ENS.
According to statistics, any other further education in France is second rate and mediocre. In a world where the European countries have and are developing equivalencies of qualifications, degrees etc foreign travel would not only broaden your child’s mind but also equip him with better qualifications for the future.
So, why is the French education system so bad?
At the top, it is an anachronistic elitist system 194 students admitted by ENS each year, 500 by l’Ecole Polytechnique.
The principle of a place at a university (as opposed to the Grand Ecoles) for all who pass the BAC leads to an absurd situation with a unwieldy masss of first year input - a lot of the first year students at Montpellier have to sit outside their lecture rooms and try to listen to lectures from steps stairs and corridors, unless they get there very early to bag the seats that are inside.
This high input means that the first year is a culling operation and of little or no educational benefit.
From a low level, children are encouraged to learn by rote, the correct answers are what the teacher has said or more often, has handed out on photocopied sheets, and not that which is correct - our children have learnt this lesson, and much to our horror, will often deliberately repeat, in homework and texts, incorrect English to get marks from teachers who have a small inaccurate but fixed grasp of the language.
Original thought is discouraged at all levels, which probably explains why Cambridge, UK can boast more Nobel prizes than the whole of France.
I am amazed by the way French literature is taught. The pupils do not read and are not asked to read the books, but are encouraged to learn by rote the critiques gathered by their teachers about those books. This runs from the lowest level to the very top.
Recently on French television a famous French professor of literature, from one of the Grand Ecoles, stated that he had given courses of lectures on James Joyce and ’Ulysses’ but had never read ’Ulysses’ - basing his courses on crib sheets and the perceptions of others. Worse, this was not a shame faced admission, he saw nothing wrong with this form of teaching.
I will be writing more on the different stages of French schooling as seen through the experience of our children.
Forum posts
1. The Failing French Education System, 2 December 2009, 17:54, by laurette
first of all, forgive my poor english
being french, I can personally give my point of view about your article, but don’t assume I am just chauvinist.
I do think the french educational system has some flaws, the most important one being the mentality of elitism.
You mention the "grandes écoles" : let me tell you more about this.
After the A level you can choose to go to a "prépa" (in order to prepare competition for the "grandes écoles") or the university. (the most common studies)
The "prépa" system lasts 2 or 3 years during which you don’t learn a job, but you prepare the grandes écoles entrance exams. These years are very hard, and the competition stressful : the academic level and the workload are very high, I personnally spent 60-65 hours per week working. after 2 years the grande école you enter depend on your rank at the exam (the better you are, the better school you get).
So your comment about the ENS is wrong : there are other schools you can enter, and not only ENS or polytechnique ( and most of the students in "prépa" do get a school).
the disadvantages of this system :
1- as i said, you don’t learn a job but just theoretical, hard topics, just in order to prepare an exam (brainfilling?)
2- people who studied in "prépa" are said to be snobbish and pretentious : it is true and false. Some of them are, some of them are not, like in every school, every system, and every country.
the advantages :
1- you learn how to efficiently organize your work,( a good methodology), ’cause you have to learn a lot in a few time. I personnlly think it is very enriching and useful.
2- you have a high level in sciences
3- you are psychologically stronger and become used to huge amount of work.
The education you have in the "prépa" and "grandes écoles" is really good.
The problem is that this system is too elitist : people who consider universities as unworthy, a huge amount of subsidies is given to the "grandes écoles", whereas universities are forgotten ... therefore it creates huge inequalities.
Even if I went to "prépa", and enjoyed the curses, it doesn’t prevent me from seing the flaws of the global system.
I certainly don’t agree with you : your children may not have good teachers, I don’t think you should make a generality. About original thought : how about the philosophy curses we get in french high schools ? how about France being the second nation for fields prizes ?
concerning the language lessons I have to admit the level is pitiful in France (see my writing ;) ), I totally agree with you
....???
I was personnally asked to read the books, had to write several kinds of essays in French and Philosophy in my high school.
If what you said is true, then you may have picked a bad school, or your children just got ONE bad teacher,but I am really surprised by your comment.
So don’t assume it is the case everywhere in France.
And about the low ranking of french schools in the world, did you just ask yourself about the criteria (shanghai ranking) used for the ranking? ’cause another criterium makes 5 french schools amongst the top 10 in the world :
http://www.ensmp.fr/Actualites/PR/EMP-ranking.html
of course I am not saying the french criterium is the best, but that the Shanghai one and the french one are just different. Just take into account the cultural differences and don’t assume the education in France is bad without thinking.
How old are your children ? I would like to know in which context you choose to go
1. The Failing French Education System, 2 December 2009, 18:12, by Patricia
One went to le Parc in Lyon, another is at Montpellier ding law and a third has gone to Lyon university. The fourth will probably go to a prepa as well.
But it was the experience both of the children at school and my child at the Lyon prepa that literature was a case of reading critiques rather than the actual books.
I hope that both of these are exceptions.
I know there are several prepas, the stats were for the grand ecoles that were in the world rankings.
I would have liked them all to go to foreign universitiies not only for the level, but for the experience of living and studying in a foreign culture.
However they are French :)
I agree with you that there is a bias towards anglophone countries in the shanghai rankings, but there again look at Belgium and Germany...
2. The Failing French Education System, 22 November 2012, 13:24
I have studied in an American Ivy league, in Oxbridge and also in Ecole Polytechnique which many French people would consider the grandest of the Grande Ecoles. Being myself French I would very much like to say positive things about the French system but I find it very hard to do. The reality is that the French system is indeed a failing educational system whose survival is only temporarily insured by the arrogance French educated students have towards their "elite" mirrors from other countries (eg: Ivy leagues in the US, Oxbridge in the UK, IIT in India, McGill in Canada, Sharif in Iran, ETH in Switzerland etc …). The survival strategy is simply to claim that the educational system is better despite all the evidence against it available. The Ecole des Mines ranking, a French ranking, which attempts to show that these rankings are function of the criteria one choose (which is true) leads to real absurdities even within the French system itself. For example Ecole Normale Superieur de Paris which is where all the French fields medalists are from ranks a pathetic 229 equal to “Ecole Super Agriculture – Purpan” and far behind other scientific institutions of not comparable reputation.
The problem with the French system is that through a weird sequence of events people have been led to believe that if you are good in a specific type of math (analysis, forget about computer science: “it’s not chic enough”) then you can do anything. Many students therefore do math in order to move up the social ladder rather than out of interest or because it contributes to society. This is the reason why France ranks second in the number of fields medals but that the whole of France cannot compete against for example Cambridge in the number of Nobel Prize winners which celebrates also other kinds of sciences. The most absurd aspect of this cultural silliness is that math is taught in such a way that it can penalize brilliant students. For example the year I was at the Ecole Polytechnique I knew of a student who was failing his math classes but at the same time was the representative of Polytechnique in international math competitions. The objective of these competitions was to capture true creativity in the way math was used.
The most annoying aspect of this attitude is that they are first in line when it comes to taking the most lucrative jobs in the UK (finance) but do their best to prevent students from Elite foreign schools to get similar positions in France. I remember that I had received an offer from Socgen, a reputable French company, for an internship while I was a student there and the person responsible for allowing me to do this internship internally at the Ecole Polytechnique refused to do so. I had to go through another more understanding professor to get an opportunity to do this internship. The first day of my internship I realized that other students (all “pure” products of the French system) had no problem in having their internship validated by people at Polytechnique.
I could write a whole book about examples of real scandalous events I witnessed during my stay at the Ecole Polytechnique. Another example was that some “students” from the Ecole Polytechnique were refused medical attention on the basis that they were not “polytechnicien” for example.
I could go on and on …
3. The Failing French Education System, 22 November 2012, 16:27, by Patricia
The positives are that France has not yet followed the path of America and England and Wales where the course fees have climbed and grants (allocations) have fallen. Ithink the ’centers of excellence’ initiative could greatly improve French education and hope that student loans will not displace student grants, which should become more universal.
4. The Failing French Education System, 23 November 2012, 05:27
It’s another misconception that education is free in France in the Grande Ecoles. The top Grande Ecole in business HEC is ridiculously expensive without the international reputation of a school like Wharton at UPenn for example. In Ecole Polytechnique, the top Engineering Grande Ecole, in which the students very proudly claim that they are “paid” in order to study is a very distorted way to present reality. Indeed the only reason why they are paid during their stay at the school is because of their duty to the state after their education. A duty which is usually bought out by the company who hires them coming out of the school and takes off the fees from their salary. So what the students claim as “we are paid” is simply a dishonest way to present essentially what a loan is. A loan which is automatically offered in schools like UPenn for their MBA students for example. The French grande ecoles are socialistic only in appearance.